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dadofral

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Reply with quote  #1 

Looks like The 11th Hour VIP in studio and stage it concerts have been cancelled, I already had purchased plane tickets, hotel, rental car for my son and I to go to this show and we were supposed to leave this afternoon....looks like we are going to Nashville and will just have to make the best of it.

Some of you may recall that this past January I was scheduled to go to the ST concert but due to terribly cold and snowy weather my flights were cancelled....on life goes....sorry for the rant, just disappointed that this happend.

JSK


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murlough23

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Reply with quote  #2 
It seems really odd that they would cancel this at (forgive me for this) the eleventh hour. Wonder if it has anything to do with the fallout from Dan's Twitter comments that were taken WAY out of context by pretty much every Christian media outlet last week.
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DISCLAIMER: The preceding post was a statement of opinion, and does not reflect the views of the members of Jars of Clay, the moderators of Jarchives, or any member of the Holy Trinity. In fact, it is only my opinion that this is my opinion. In my opinion, you may choose to believe that my opinion is fact, if in fact you are of the opinion that you are allowed to choose what you believe, which presupposes the opinion that you do in fact exist in the first place - in my humble opinion, of course. It is my opinion that all of my opinions are humble opinions, but this does not indicate a bias on my part against opinions which are, in my opinion, proud opinions.
dadofral

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Reply with quote  #3 
Yeah. I emailed Jay back and he was all apogetic and the decision was just made last night. I don't even know what Dan said but you could be right. We are still going to Nashville since the trip is paid for and non refundable. May as well make the best of it.
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murlough23

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadofral
Yeah. I emailed Jay back and he was all apogetic and the decision was just made last night.


It surprises me because these guys aren't rock star divas who make a habit of canceling plans on a whim and stuff like that. So that tells me that something sudden and unforeseeable happened that they couldn't plan around. Either an illness/death in the family, or the stress from this past week had a very negative effect on Dan health-wise, or the fallout from those comments caused some tension within the band that cut into rehearsal time, or they got some backlash from the label (can a label control which of the songs they own that you can play live even after you've left the label?) I don't want to assume any specific one of those things, though. I'm sure all will be explained in due time, but I understand your frustration now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadofral
I don't even know what Dan said but you could be right.


For context (and I'm surprised there isn't a discussion raging about this in some other thread by now):

http://danhaseltine.com/blog/2014/4/25/reset-contexttangentapology.html

Short version: He started asking honest questions about how we use the Bible to justify our hateful treatment of gays and lesbians. This got taken out of context as him saying all sorts of things that he did not say, up to and including that the Bible is not true and that there is no right and wrong. (As he's admitted, Twitter with its 140-character limit is not the best forum for expressing these thoughts, because you get no space to clarify what you really mean.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadofral
We are still going to Nashville since the trip is paid for and non refundable. May as well make the best of it.


That's still a trip that I would take even without a live performance to see. I've never been to Nashville or anywhere in "the South".

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DISCLAIMER: The preceding post was a statement of opinion, and does not reflect the views of the members of Jars of Clay, the moderators of Jarchives, or any member of the Holy Trinity. In fact, it is only my opinion that this is my opinion. In my opinion, you may choose to believe that my opinion is fact, if in fact you are of the opinion that you are allowed to choose what you believe, which presupposes the opinion that you do in fact exist in the first place - in my humble opinion, of course. It is my opinion that all of my opinions are humble opinions, but this does not indicate a bias on my part against opinions which are, in my opinion, proud opinions.
dadofral

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Reply with quote  #5 
Well we made the most of the trip, had a great time for 1.5 days in Nashville with my oldest son, we did go see the Gray Matters studio but did not go inside...it's just a smallish stand along building with two floors in an older section of Nashville.

I will have to read up on Dan's comments and now I understand the band has come under a lot of fire from the Christian community / radio about his comments some stations even calling to boycott their music.

I will say that IF his comments are Biblically sound then why would people argue against him or go to such great lengths to discredit the band?  While I have nothing against the homosexual community we know what the Bible says about it, and while it's not popular opinion these days, it's not about actually being homosexual, not hating the person, but rather the actions that go along with practicing it...I don't want to start an argument / debate here on the issue just stating that people are people that should be loved for who and what they are, but we still need to honor our beliefs and not like the practices in my humble opinion.

I just hope the Chr. community takes a step back, a deep breath, and lets this be explained further before jumping to conclusions and having more of a knee jerk reaction.

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murlough23

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadofral
I will have to read up on Dan's comments and now I understand the band has come under a lot of fire from the Christian community / radio about his comments some stations even calling to boycott their music.


I would say that they were more questions than comments, though arguably some of them were leading questions. It might be hard to assess "Biblical soundness" in the sense of determining whether he was right or wrong... my personal belief is that it's never wrong to ask questions as long as you're doing so out of respect for God and a hunger for the truth. What it really seemed like he was trying to get at was not figuring out what's morally right and wrong, but asking why we let our sense of moral right and wrong override our responsibility to love people. How you weight these two things depends heavily on interpretation; I lean more on the "love" side than the "law" side, and I could back this up Scripturally if pushed, but then I know others who don't interpret the same Scriptures the same way and can make a decent case for how they weigh these things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadofral
I will say that IF his comments are Biblically sound then why would people argue against him or go to such great lengths to discredit the band?


Most of them would argue that the IF part of that statement isn't true, and in the minds of a lot of folks in that community, that gives you free reign to bring out the big guns and slander the person who dared to challenge your comfort zone into oblivion.

But I think it runs deeper than that. Look how the "Christian community" has historically treated any Christian artist who dared to step on their toes. It's human nature to respond to these things defensively, and especially when you're dealing with a lot of people raised in an environment where any sort of deeper thinking gets equated to giving the devil a foothold (an attitude which is not intrinsic to Christianity, but it is a common part of church subculture, at least in this country), the typical response tends to be to "double down" on your original belief and plant your heels and refuse to budge, rather than to rationally evaluate what it is they're saying, take what truths are offered, respectfully critique the parts you find to be untrue, and open up a civil discussion on the matter. I'm sure there are a few quieter voices among the Christian community trying to do that with Dan's words, but the loudmouths who speak first and think later (and/or never) are the ones we hear from first and foremost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadofral
While I have nothing against the homosexual community we know what the Bible says about it, and while it's not popular opinion these days, it's not about actually being homosexual, not hating the person, but rather the actions that go along with practicing it...I don't want to start an argument / debate here on the issue just stating that people are people that should be loved for who and what they are, but we still need to honor our beliefs and not like the practices in my humble opinion.


I don't want to start an argument/debate either, but I wouldn't mind a discussion.

I don't disagree with any of what you said here, and I don't think Dan ever said that we shouldn't hate the sin or believe that it is sin. I'm presuming that part of what he was getting at was that we pay lip service to the idea of loving the sinner and hating the sin, but in truth we fall short on the "loving the sinner" part. Basically it boils down to, "Well, you can come to our church I guess, but we're going to verbally condemn your actions every chance we get", and those are the nice ones who would even let a gay Christian step through their doors in the first place. At the end of the day, we still make excuses for ourselves, because it's easier than having to deal with the uncomfortable mess of having struggling sinners present in our congregations. Oh wait, whoops... those "struggling sinners" are all of us. Yet there's virtually no other sin (outside of a few that would get a person immediately hauled off to jail, I guess) that gets a person treated so harshly in most of today's churches. We heterosexual sinners tend to be really hypocritical on this point.

I have a lot of thoughts on this issue because my church has been dealing with it recently and our senior pastor has come under fire for daring to suggest that we've been guilty of hypocrisy on this subject, and that as a consequence a lot of Christians who have struggled with homosexuality have been ostracized from our community and from others, meaning they either walk out on Christianity altogether, or else they remain "lone wolf" Christians because they have no leadership available to them. What about all the other spiritual issues a person deals with in their lifetime? Who's there to shepherd them through that stuff? It's like nobody cares what happens to these people; we just hope they'll magically wise up and stop being gay. And it typically doesn't work that way. Ask just about anyone who has ever tried to "pray the gay away", and they'll tell you that no sane person would choose this. But it's easier for us to stand on the sidelines and try to criticize, rather than having the compassion to try to understand their struggle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadofral
I just hope the Chr. community takes a step back, a deep breath, and lets this be explained further before jumping to conclusions and having more of a knee jerk reaction.


I hope so too, but honestly, when has the "Christian community", aside from a few outliers, ever done that?

I'm not at all ashamed of Christ, but sometimes I am quite embarrassed to call fellow Christians my brothers and sisters.

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DISCLAIMER: The preceding post was a statement of opinion, and does not reflect the views of the members of Jars of Clay, the moderators of Jarchives, or any member of the Holy Trinity. In fact, it is only my opinion that this is my opinion. In my opinion, you may choose to believe that my opinion is fact, if in fact you are of the opinion that you are allowed to choose what you believe, which presupposes the opinion that you do in fact exist in the first place - in my humble opinion, of course. It is my opinion that all of my opinions are humble opinions, but this does not indicate a bias on my part against opinions which are, in my opinion, proud opinions.
pfreak

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Reply with quote  #7 
So if the stageit for The Eleventh Hour is rescheduled for May 27th, what happens to the WWAI stageit? Wasn't that supposed to be May 25th?
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murlough23

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Reply with quote  #8 
I'm assuming they'll just push them all back a month and end with Inland in November instead of October.
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DISCLAIMER: The preceding post was a statement of opinion, and does not reflect the views of the members of Jars of Clay, the moderators of Jarchives, or any member of the Holy Trinity. In fact, it is only my opinion that this is my opinion. In my opinion, you may choose to believe that my opinion is fact, if in fact you are of the opinion that you are allowed to choose what you believe, which presupposes the opinion that you do in fact exist in the first place - in my humble opinion, of course. It is my opinion that all of my opinions are humble opinions, but this does not indicate a bias on my part against opinions which are, in my opinion, proud opinions.
emman

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Reply with quote  #9 
11th hour and Who We Are Instead are the shows that I surely don't wanna miss. 
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dadofral

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Reply with quote  #10 

I'll probably be watching the 11th hour show from home now, I can't really afford to try to make it down to Nashville again even though I'd love to see that one in the studio...already out $1300+ from the first one...but that's water under the bridge.

Nashville is a cool city, I would label it a good mix of the south and the midwest, we had great weather for the one full day we were there and all the people we came in contact with were really friendly.  I hope to go back some day for 4-5 days and explore a little more.

Jars is scheduled to be in Holland, MI on June 18 for a show....that's only 25 min from my house give or take...Jay is looking into what he can do to get our family in on that one as it doesn't seem any tix are for sale.  Quite possible that's going to be a private show for BWM or something.


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Husband, father, family man, business owner, long time JOC fan and first and foremost follower of Christ.
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